As with many building construction components, they just don’t make them like they used to. Sometimes this makes our job easier, and sometimes not so much. Here is something that’s a little different from years ago. Skylights are made very differently, and are now much stronger. This particular skylight is made with laminated glass. It has two pieces of ¼ glass with a thin layer of some fancy plastic in between them. They claim this glass can support 10,000psi. Under that extreme load the glass will obviously crack, but it will still support the entire 10,000psi. We were unable to test this out for ourselves, but we definitely noticed they are significantly stronger then the old style. It seems that the most efficient way through these types of skylights would be with a rotary saw, clearing it out with a hook is no longer an option.
Dont forget brothers, If your going to a commercial roof such as this, you will probably be taking a carbide tipped blade of some sort. These blades especially the new age widely spaced tips will give you hell trying to cut the laminated glass. Rather than bringing a second saw with a composite blade. Think simple and bring a glassmaster saw from the extrication kit. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Do you think a window punch would break the glass?
Nope – it’s laminated.
At my station we have found that using the pick end of a pick head axe to make a “starter hole” for the chainsaw has worked awesome. We cut three of the sides and then peel back to keep the large sheets of glass from falling on our brothers below. The man on the saw will get hit with pieces of glass and plastic so make sure they have their mask on. We run stihl ms460 saws with stihl carbide rescue chain.
Sorry had to go on a run… The first time I tried cutting one of the style skylights pictured I didnt make a hole with the axe, and as Ron says above its hell cutting it. Give the starter hole a shot if you get a chance, just make sure when you put the saw in you have the RPM’s maxed on the saw and have full PPE on. I like the idea of the glass master. Have you had trouble with any cross members in the skylight or do you have to cut each bay individually?
I’ve always joked that we should carry grenades for commercial roof ventilation…
jeff
sdg
Would the traditional ‘Plan B’ tactic of prying, cutting or breaking either part of or the entire assembly up and out be a viable option for these units?
Be safe.
I’d agree with the use of a saw. It’s a commercial structure so you should be taking a saw to the roof with the proper blade and as for opening these up I would say treat them the same as Hurricane Windows. They may or may not me as strong as Hurricane Windows, but just go for the saw right from the start and don’t mess around with prying, chopping, etc. Because keep in mind that takes more time than the saw and that leaves you and your crew on the roof of a commercial structure for longer than you need to be!
Look at the big picture!! Yes, they keep making glass stonger and stronger. But, in most cases the frame work and structure of the building is the same. Take the frame and all out.
We dont have these NYC, its too expensive. But the last brother has the best point, go for the frame. I was on the roof at a job last week and the scuttle had safety glass, which here in NYC is glass that has wire in it. Well instead of breaking my ass taking the glass I whacked the hell out of the frame and got the glass to fall in that way. The frame is always gonna be weaker if the glass is decent.
Don’t be afraid of a little work! An axe will chop through the laminated glass, so there is no need to bring any special tools with you. If you are staying proficient with your basic hand tools, you should be able to chop out the glass in the same amount of time it would take you to cut it with a saw. If you are looking for a little practice, use the axe to chop through a windshield next time you do extrication training. I also agree with the brother from NY, go for the frame if it is the path of least resistance. A good, quick size up of the opening will help you determine which option is going to work the best.
For anyone who thinks using the axe (or any other hand tools for that matter) is too much work, it’s time to either spend more time in the gym or leave the Truck.
Good point at the end Jeff…Be good with the tools that don’t break that easily. i.e Axe, 30″ Pro Bar, Steel Roof Hook. Be safe!!!
can we find out what buisness this was ?
I like the idea of going for the frame, if it is truelly the weakest link. Chad as far as the crossmembers, if it is anything beefy you can just cut the glass on three sides and fold each section in because the glass will hold. As far as truck tools go, Im all for keeping it simple, but I was also taught a long time ago to work smarter not harder. The glassmaster is a simple hand tool specifically designed for cutting class.
That guy looks familiar.
Looks like it’s time to bring back the old Jet-Axe! Seriously, how much time are we going to waste fooling around with a ‘high security’ device/door/etc, to ‘save time & effort’, when basic methods will work better & sometimes faster. – Forget the skylight & drop a hole in the roof deck! Keep it real(safe)!
Spoon, I agree sometimes basic methods work better, but in this instance (lets take the bottom picture for example)there isn’t really any place to “drop a hole” not to mention there’s a good chance that is a metal q-deck roof with the trusses spanning 3 feet or longer in which case I would not be cutting on a roof of this construction. If you cut on a roof where the trusses are farther than 3 feet apart there is a very good chance you may be falling through. There’s 2 ways to figure out the construction of this roof. What are the 2 ways? The first way is while doing inspections, the other is to do an inspection cut.
I can assure you that an axe isn’t going to do the trick on that stuff. You’ll spend more time beating on the glass than you will just cutting it away with a saw. We actually produce our products to withstand hurricane forces. Most of that glass consists of two layers of 3/16 double strength glass with a 1/8 inch PVB plastic sandwiched between them. It withstands repeated cannon blasts of a 9 ft. 2×4 shot from an air cannon at an impact speed equivalent of about 90MPH. It then goes through a series of 9000 cyclical wind tests of positive and negative pressures. That stuff must withstand all of those tests without the plastic interlayer tearing in order to be rated for Inland 1 or Miami Dade County certification. Best way to cut it is with a windshield saw or a K-12 with a masonry blade.
James seemed to be on track on this one. Impact resistant glass is intended to defeat objects from penetrating as in the small and large missile tests he refers to. An axe WILL get through and WILL exhaust the person performing the task in a hurry. They key is to get on the roof, perform the task, and get the hell back off the roof. An aggressive carbide blade on a rotary saw or chainsaw will do the trick with a starter hole or not. Don’t waste your time with a glass master or a reciprocating saw. Another way to defeat these impact resistant panels is to take them at the frame with an 8-10 lb sledge. They will fail. If you need proof I have plenty of windows and can show you at my station or yours.