Sean Zellers from the Union Hose Company, Annville (PA) sent in these photos of something he came across while passing through Shamokin, PA. The photo shows an older Victorian style home undergoing some renovations, including a roof-over. In this situation the mansard roof is being covered by a hip roof. As shown in the photo below, this creates a significant void space around the perimeter of the third floor. Fortunately, after the renovation is complete there will still be a few indications of the underlining situation. The excessively deep window sills will be apparent from the inside, and the slight bit of the remaining mansard roof (showing in-between the second and third story) will be noticeable from the outside. Comparing structures in the neighborhood is a useful tool when trying to determine the potential of situations like this.
These photos also serve as a reminder that you may have to go and aggressively look for the fire during overhaul. Many departments, incident commanders or crews are reluctant to open things up too much. Sometimes a little bit of damage now will prevent an embarrassing recall or rekindle later on. As with some many other things we’ve discussed on the site before sensible Truck work will make the difference!
17 thoughts on “Mansard Roof Over”
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This is where the TIC will become very useful. Although its hard to out do a flat head axe and a pike pole to find fire extension, sometimes a TIC will save us time and energy, and not to mention it may save a citizen some money in repairs.
Additions like these can make our job as the truck crew more difficult due to the troubles that we may face when trying to vent this type of home and overhaul. But also the fire can run very quickly on our engine guys. This appears to be an older home and I would geuss that it prolly has baloon construction. And a roof over on a baloon style house is just asking for trouble, not only can the fire walk from the basement to the attic it can now surround the whole upper end of the house putting us more at risk.
Looks like the electric meter is on the A/D corner by following the service line. Just wanted to throw that out there. As far as TIC’s, a good walk around from the outside with it will put you one step ahead. As far as overhaul, cameras are all good but Ive watched firemen stand around staring at a burnt wall with a TIC 100 times. When in doubt, in the words of Limp Bizkit “break stuff.” Yeah I know “conserve property” but if you can justify the damage, just poke a hole. That’s what we do. Remember they didnt have TIC and Ladder companies.
This is where being conscious of your surroundings is important. When you are opening up the walls you should be scratching your head wondering why the windows are set so deep in the wall, yet the stud bay is so thin.
Agreed to what has already been posted for comments along with a “why the hell would you do that to a nice mansard roof?”.
Also, an inspection hole or several from the inside is cheaper than burning the roof off the place…food for thought.
Gotta love the coal region of Pennsylvania. They might fix that house up a bit, but in a week it will be black again from coal dust…
Ever wonder why people think of us as a demolition team? …. Because they do these stupid renovations and wonder why we have to cut holes and tear their home apart!
Im no expert in the construction business but arent their rules and regulations on these types of additions?????
Rules were only made to be broken… and like us, in the construction world, it is always better to ask for forgiveness than permission. I am glad that ive found someone outside of my shift that believes in using the TIC in a walk around… thanks DMAN72! Also, one possible giveaway from the inside would be the appearance of a 2-3′ wide exterior wall on the inside walls of the doormer.
“Some Dude” and “FFGoodnight” are definitely on to something with the deep-set windows. While this seems really unusual and not to ‘practically’ be expected – I would treat the deep windows just like cape cod. Rule #1 with cape cods is check the knee walls ASAP.
I’m not sure about using the TIC for an initial lap, because it would take me the entire lap to get the latex glove off of it, but it weren’t for that, I would be in!
As far as extension, why stop at an inspection hole (it sounds so dainty), I would donkey kick the walls every 4 or so feet!
What the hell did I start??? Funny thing is that anyone who doesnt follow this site religously is probably going “WTF???”
Almost didn’t catch the glove joke…
Seriously though, this is quite interesting. And I thought they did some crazy stuff here in FL. We don’t have this type of construction in my area, but it definitely gets you thinking about what else might be out there. Good eyes!
I just read up on the WWCNDG, (What Would Chuck Norris Do Guide)and in secion three it confirms and justifies RS3’s statement of Donkey kicking the wall every 4 feet.. It also recomends that you perform a back heel round house kick to the probie after you tie him off to the rubber glove on your TIC with webbing to help with the removal… NOITE* If done properly, the amount of energy created will cause the webbing to roll itself up and become inserted back into the rubber glove, and once the probie regains conciousness, he can connect a biner to it, and shove it back up his A#% for future deployments!!!! And yes, it has been a slow day today in case you were wondering.
DMAN72, So should I pull the meter or not?
Yes, pull the meter, but only after you wrap the meter with a flame-resistant latex glove.
Safe to assume that the other half of that structure is also a roof over mansard? Wonder why they didn’t continue the roofline of the white part of the building to really confuse us.
Posted by DMAN 72
“When in doubt, in the words of Limp Bizkit “break stuff.†Yeah I know “conserve property†but if you can justify the damage, just poke a hole. That’s what we do. Remember they didnt have TIC and Ladder companies.”
I’d rather poke a hole than have a rekindle. Nothing is more embarrassing than going back to put out a fire you didn’t extinguish in the first place!!!
This is a technique that I have seen a few times. Most of these that I have seen remove the old mansard roof after getting the new load bearing walls up so the dwelling can still be occupied during construction. I would like to see a final result to make sure though.
If this were my house I’d be putting the new roof and walls on in order to make the 3rd story into a room without sloped walls or a dormer gaining a ton of previously unusable square footage. If that’s the case the old roof would eventually be torn down from the inside thus eliminating the “deep set windows” unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re seeing.
But as always never forget the lost art of overhaul.