Firefighter Christopher Dyer from Ocala Fire Rescue sent in this forcible entry photo. Obviously this business owner does not want this door used. When faced with this interesting find, work smarter not harder. As we advocate in all forcible entry situations… Identify and visualize. Identify what is holding the door, and visualize how you are going to place and work the tool to defeat it.
So we ask the question, Hinges or welds? The hinges may be the easier way into the door. However, that method alone isn’t going to open the door. After cutting the hinges the door will still need to be forced open (from the hinge side) with a halligan and some muscle. However, depending on the depth of the welds, the welds may cut quicker. One thought about going for the welds it that you maintain the ability to control the door. Either way it’s another out of the ordinary forcible entry problem you may be faced with on your very next run.
I would go for the hinges and the bolts holding the closure hardware above, assuming there is standard panic hardware or a regular handle inside you beat the locking mechanism with with minimal effort.
I might give the welded side a couple of test taps witha maul to see if the welds may not be as big an obstacle as they first seem. After that I don’t think you’d be wrong going for either method (cut hinges or welds). This looks like an exterior exit so I’m not overly concerned with maintaining the doors integrity as with a door in the interior. Either way I’m hoping that the door actually leads to somewhere. If the business owner welded it shut there could be any number of things blocking the door from the inside.
Great stuff.
I have to agree with Brian here. What is behind that door? If the owner doesn’t want anyone utilizing it then he would just be using that whole wall as just that, a wall. But in gaining entry I would say to go for the welds. Seeing how many welds there are makes me think that cutting the hinges would do no good being that you have all the welds to deal with also. Even after you get through that, who knows what he has on the other side preventing access.
Assuming there is nothing behind the door other than the locking mechanism as you mentioned the door would swing out as you pry with the haligan most likely breaking those welds or better yet acting as a hinge.
Again depending upon the integrity of those welds.
I would say that a “doggie-door” cut (as discussed here before) with a run of the blade just inside the welds to open the door up quickly. You can than access the building with a line/team and than a 10lbs maul can take care of the welds from the inside after whatever locking mechanism has been disabled. However before opening the door up completly I would probably take a kerf cut at the point of the “7” made by the modified “doggie-door” cut and take a quick look to see what I’m dealing with on the other side. another option is just make an inspection hole right off the bat and see if this is even a viable entry means before even starting the saw or using anymore muscle on this FE.
I WOULD USE THE BUILDING CODE TO PROVE THIS IS A FIRE EXIT AND MAKE HIM FIX THE DOOR AND APPLY THE PROPER PANIC HARDWARE. AGAIN, THIS CALLS FOR SPECULATION BUT THIS WOULD BE WORKING SMARTEST. EXCELLENT USE OF PREPLANNING TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. TWO THUMBS UP FOR THE SUBMITTER OF THIS.
Another great example of why we need to get out and look at our first due areas. Finding this door on a fire call creates more questions and not the time to get the answers. If you find this ahead of time, you can see if the door leads to anything or if its more of a wall inside then anything else. If it should be a door, then you get your code enforecment folks to get the owner to comply with code.
Good find.
Stay safe.
If door is welded as shown, odds are it is either covered or blocked with “Things” inside. If you really need to open the rear, don;t eliminate the option of leaving the door and using the K-12 with cement blade or using the maul to go through the block wall itself. It it was never backfilled with cement or rebarred, ths could prove an easier way in.
And start high and work your way down.
Otherwise the rising smoke can be extremely punishing as you break through.
C-4 also works but may be hard to acquire LOL.
The graffiti should tell all of you its an area of high crime, and that the welds are there as a anti-crime device. I would cut the welds with the saw but go all the way through the door from top to bottom. Top to bottom so you arent sucking smoke the whole time. Forget about making a doggie door or any of that stuff, you need a way to vent and give the guys inside a way out if ‘it’ hits the fan. Same thing with windows, dont just take a pane or a panel, take the whole thing. But, as always with commercial buildings make all attempts to vent vertically before horizontally to prevent a back draft.
I’d love to see the other side of this door to see what else the owner modified or added. Perhaps he framed right over it, or did some other hack construction modification. But I would definately cut the welds with a K-12 or similiar saw.
Jon,
I’m not sure if you got what I was suggesting with the “doggie-door” cut method, but the idea behind that tactic is to avoid cutting and prying through (if possible) the entire door and all it’s locking mechanisms. You make the cut down low to gain access/egress quickly and than open the entire door as needed. The main point is to avoid the standard and added locking mechanisms because most are usually mounted above the midline of the door. Plus from the inside most of these can be disabled with little effort and make the overall goal of opening the entire door easier while giving you access/egress through the “doggie-door” in seconds. When considering this tactic it falls into a “work smarter, not harder” approach, because after you cut the welds you now have to force any locking mechanisms left in the jamb and whatever is NOT in the jamb. Not saying this is the only way, but it is a fast option and something to keep in mind is that in this type of building we may have to open multiple doors just as secure as this one!
I understood what you meant by that, but when fighting a fire in a commercial building the life hazard is almost always us. Make it a wide open door, not one you will have trouble finding. Why waste the time to cut across then from that cut down, when you can just cut through the whole door top to bottom. The door shows no carriage bolts and if it has a panic bar on the inside, which I doubt, it will pop right off. The slide bolts that are most likely being used will be sheared off provided the company cutting them has a new blade on the saw. I am all for working smarter not harder. I am lucky working in NYC, we have more men (and cry babies) then we know what to do with at a fire.
I actually thought about Jon’s idea of just taking the saw and “making a door” out of a “door”. It would be quite a bit faster and would not cause as much hassel. Assuming there are no contents behind the door.
make a door a door, make a window a door. hell, make a wall a door if needed.
How about the block wall? Still need the muscle part, yet I agree on the fire prevention part, fix it! You could treat like a roof and cut your hole then make entry, but the number one choice, find another way in!
Be safe
I havent had alot of experiance cutting those types of doors but if you were to make a doggie door why not cut an inch to two inches to the left of the welds and force the door that way leaving the welds where they are and having the hinges keep the door up. Crusing this website also gave me several ideas on how to deal with panic hardware such as using the K12 and a framing square, cut a line down the middle and insert the square. Or you can do the irons method and start with the pick then to the adze and then the crowbar part.
Having welding experience, I would go for the welds. Welds are strong as steel, if not stronger but the welds’ penetration is not that deep. Do to the burn patterns left by the welds only one pass was made. It wouldn’t take that long to cut through with a K12. It is also obvious that there is no carriage bolts showing, so I’m guessing that the locking mechanism is not that complexed. Probably use a halligan or rabbit tool, at worse make a triangular cut around where the handle is. For the most part we will be practicing property conservation. After the fire, depending on the damage, you can resecure the door. As Jon has stated above this could be a high crime area and would be good public relations in not causeing more damage than necessary.
joe, enlighten us on how you would use the rabbit tool to open an outward opening door. It specifically states it is not used for outward opening doors. Perhaps you know something.
Everyone has given great input to this matter, I would really like to know what kind of business is operated and what are the hazards within? Overall bulding construction and any life safety hazards before I worry about dealing with this door let alone placing my crew inside looking for a way out.
Love the site and have taken away several idea’s.
Be safe all
Oh yea, I would go for the hinges first.
No kidding, had to get in there… Deep cut w/ K-12 from top to bottom an inch in from the welds, cuts the door, doesn’t F with the frame, destroys the panic hardware.
Door control is easy, it is an outward swinging door. Don’t want it open anymore, shut it and throw something against it.
I apologize jon, I rushed my answer. I had rabbit tool in the back of my mind about seperating the welds and not for opening an outward swing door. If there is slag in the weld, it wouldn’t take much to crack the weld. The More slag the weaker the weld. Of course, this is in the absence of a saw. Thank you for bring the error to my attention.
Now that there has been so much chatter generated, I’ll fill you in on more of the story… This is a single story commertial something like a Wal Mart and this door had one of many types “interesting locking systems” found through out the rear of the building to keep transient traffic out of their building.
The other side: Warehouse style verticle storage. Not framed in, or walled off. This one obviously isn’t some place we would want to make entry, but for sure a great exit if the Truck is establishing egress around the structure.
Also, credit to Marion County Fire, who we were holding Truck Company Training with when we came across this P.O.S.
Looking at photo again. The shade prohibits us from seeing the hinged side of the door. Wonder if this side has welds also. If so, this changes attacking that side first. If anything this should motivate the brothers to mount up and go out looking at their response area.
I’m thinkin take the wall. Though it wouldn’t take too long to cut through the welds, a good sledge and some good truckies would get an opening faster. Just get an opening for the brothers inside FTM EGH
If you cut right down the center of the door, top to bottom, this will 1) cut through the panic hardware and 2) make the door into a french style door and therefeore easier to pry open. Just another idea.