Dan Dejkunchorn (D-Chorn) from Orlando (FL) Firehouse 9 showed us this great method to assist in throwing ladders. This method works great in a number of different instances. The first is when throwing a stick where an overhang is present and there is nothing available to butt it against. Another use is when on a hard surface where the stick may tend to slide like wet concrete. While this method works well in a number of different circumstances, the real reason it was developed was for the “not as tall” firefighter. This method works well on any length of ladder but was intentionally developed for the longer ones (14+). Just another example that proves that it’s better to work smarter not harder.
[flv]http://www.vententersearch.com/videos/flv/laddertrick.flv[/flv]
This ladder tick simply has the firefighter dropping their hook on the ground, stepping on the hook, and using the hook to butt the ladder. With a little practice, this method can be extremely effective. It’s one of those things that everyone should try a few times to see if works for them. You never know when you may be in a situation that requires its use. The video shows the firefighter using the ladder to push the hook into the desired position. That was done intentionally for demonstration in the video. With some practice, it’s easier to drop the hook closer to the actual point of deployment. Keep in mind, it’s better to drop the hook early and push it in to place since it would take too much time to move or pull the hook back into position.
When a shorter firefighter throws a ladder greater than the 14, its more difficult to “get under” the ladder to get it rotated into position. The hook gives the advantage since leverage is not on their side. Throwing a ladder is a classic example of a class 3 lever. The butt of the ladder is the fulcrum, the firefighter is the effort, and the weight of the length of ladder is the load. Shorter firefighters have to work harder to throw a ladder because their height limits the location where the force is applied. Longer ladders have more weight beyond the point of effort (the firefighter). While throwing the ladder, this makes the ladder seem much heavier for the shorter person. Remember, anytime you change the location of any of the three points of a lever (fulcrum, force or effort, weight or load) you change the mechanical advantage. So again, it pays to work smarter not harder. A simple trick like this solves the problem and gets the ladder into position without extra effort.
A special thanks goes out to Dan for sharing and Rob Petroff from Orlando (FL) Firehouse 11 for demonstrating this ladder trick for us. Dan has a few more ideas that we will be featuring in the near future.
Really…? I have seen guys 5 nothing toss 28ft 2 section ladders on concrete with no walls no problem. This is another example of things that are good in theory but ridiculous in practice. Learn the right way and master the technique
If it works for you, great. I agree with the above comment, I’ve seen vertically challenged firemen do the same without dropping a hand tool to help them throw a ladder.
Chicks dig it!!
While your looking down at your roof hook you’ll miss something else, look up and ahead, remember the kid on the skateboard who hit the stone….if you cant throw a single fly ladder 14-20ft by yourself get off the truck and go to the ambulance.
Dear John…
Well??? Don’t be a tight a–! How does the 5 nothing FF do it?
I think it’s a good tip, try it out, and if you like it, use it. Whether 5-nothing or six-something, everyone will have the occasional slip when throwing a ladder, especially on a wet/slick surface like the post mentions. If you keep an eye on where you’re going and do it pretty close to where you’re throwing the ladder, then the kid/skateboard/stone theory doesn’t really matter. It’s just something else to file away in the ol’ noggin.
1. I agree that this is something good to keep in the back of your mind for certain occasions such as the overhang roof. On the other hand, if you are dragging the butt end of the ladder on the concrete every time it is being thrown, over time you are grinding away the butt spurs creating an uneven, unstable ladder setup.
2. I understand this is just an example, but the ladder being thrown in the video only has the top rung barely touching the roof line. Basic essentials tells you to ensure there are 3-5 rungs above the roof line for ladders thrown to the roof.
3. If you can’t throw ladders (especially single fly), get back on the pipeline. It is a requirement in my volly company to be able to throw each ladder alone (including the 35ft 2 section). We typically go out the door with a crew of 4 and the outside man has to throw ladders by himself, then go to the roof.
Jesus people, they’re just showing DIFFERENT WAYS to do stuff. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it’s another way to do stuff.
That climbing angle was dangerous, especially on concrete!
hey, jon boy…. go back to your hole. its a type of style and skill to use, its not on the safety angle,sure hope when you work a baby is not in need of your ladder skills as it might not be safe for you do do your job!!! I hear that the post office is looking for stamp lickers, any thoughts on that job?
Great party trick.
Tip of the leather to you. That was some highly creative thinking that came up with that, though not all that practical.
Hey right on not for me but its thinking outside the box, props for that! And, for the hell of it i will try it and see how i like it.
There are some tool bags on this site, its an idea people, STFU
Great video!!! I love seeing different ways to do things. It never hurts to have more tools in your tool box! Thanks VES for the video! I will try it out with my crew next time we are doing ladder opps.
Pretty cool,but i’m not sure it will work well in the snow up here in the Boston area!!
Thats is the dumbest thing that i have ever watched. Its a 14ft ladder. STOP BEING LAZY AND GET THE LADDER UP. Don’t come up with stuff just to put on the web. Also, don’t forget “3” rungs over the roofline.
“This method works well on any length of ladder but was intentionally developed for the longer ones (14+).” Speaking of lazy if you wouldve read the article you would have known that…. and the rung rule is 5… but when you need to get up there who cares… get it done… if your thrown a 28 by yourself this is a great method…
Who gives a shit how big the ladder was in the video, I’m pretty sure it was just being used to demonstrate the technique. If you don’t like it don’t use it, but it sure as hell didn’t hurt anything to show off a trick that might help somebody, somewhere.
Man, if I wanted to hear this much bitchin and whining I’d go visit Womansday.com, er…I mean FireRescue1.com. It’s another tool in the toolbox. Thanks for sharing.
What’s wrong with that climbing angle? It looks just about perfect for me ! My long legs don’t like no shallow angle. 🙂
Lockett you need to chill out abit brother. As others have said…it’s a tool. Don’t use it if you don’t need it….but if you do then you know how.
Oh ya….it ain’t 3 rungs over the roof….if ya wanna be safe you best have 4 as a minimum….just go ask IFSTA 🙂
……….or 5 or more 🙂
The idea is nice, however, if it is too slick to anchor that ladder w/o a tool, should you be climbing w/o someone heeling it? Just a thought.
Another tactic would be to grab the ladder @ its balance point (or farther back if you are short of stature however this will take more upper body strength to overcome the imbalance) with your non dominant hand, holding on your dominant side (right handed right side) tip end toward your target (I know, flame me for the blatant disregard of our forefathers thinking) Take your dominant hand and push down on the backside of the ladder, lift with your non dominant hand to reach the roof edge. Use your non dominant hand as the fulcrum and dominant hand as the load. Change it from a class 3 to a class 1. Angle appropriately.
Man…talking about busting someone’s chops. At least this FF is training instead of playing guitar hero. I like the energy in this forum. Be safe.
Sweet tip brother!! Man some of you guys never disappoint,,, who would of thought of This stuff ?? Man I am a ball buster but Volley and jon how about you come up with a idea and post it on this site.. I am willing to bet you have NOTHING to offer any of us so how about you take your SHUT THE FU&K UP PILL and sit down..Stay strong and safe for all the rest
I wonder if we put latex gloves on the butt of the latter if that will stop it from slipping….
*******************READ THIS**************************
IT’S JUST AN IDEA! As I have said so many times before, if you like it great, if you don’t like it, that’s great too. Do whatever works best for you. Where has all of this negativity come from? Take it over to one of the other sites that enjoy that crap…Trust me, I know ball breaking is part of the job, but save it for the firehouse.
I encourage everyone who has been outspoken about this idea, or any other idea from this site, to submit some of their own stuff! Let’s see what you’ve got.
So I recommend this, if you like it, use it, if you don’t like it, submit some of your own stuff, or just sit back and enjoy some of the other 269 other posts on the site. Hopefully every one of us still has something to learn.
Stay safe brothers and sisters and GO TRAIN!
Nicely done. Look in the VES archives for J. Morelocks use of a short rope to do the same raise. Another tool for the box! Keep’em coming and BE SAFE!
Like it but would hate trying it with a 3 fly 35ft ha
Thanks for the tip, tried it today at work and though its not an everyday thing I’ll have it in my toolbox just in case. Keep the good stuff coming. The rest of you please get over yourselves.
Nicely said Tim. Brickcity I agree with you that some people need to take the STFU pill. I hear the same negative “not by the book” or “we’ll never have to do that” comments everyday, when presenting some outside the box thinking or training ideas. I doubt any of the bitchers and whiners are really any prominent names in the fire service anyway. For the nit picking standards people, how about we have a new NFPA standard that states if you can’t get the job done w/out worrying about every little rule in the book,then walk your sorry ass out the door and be careful not to let it hit you on the way out. Theres probably some czar position they can create for you to spout off useless information to people who truly care. I’ve yet to fight a fire that followed all the rules. To all the brothers/sisters stay safe and keep the ideas coming; still the best damn job in the world!
Well said, Joe!! And for the Orlando Brother who posted the helpful video, KUDOS. I learned this trick at the OFD conference this past year, and have used it several times on real, not fake fires since then. This site is about sharing ideas so that our Brotherhood sets itself apart from the average person out there trying to do our job. The book is the book, but in the real world, sometimes to get the job done, you have to step outside the box.
I got our guys out yesterday and we gave it a try. Everyone gave it a “thumbs up”, and while it wouldn’t be used everyday, we all agreed that it is something useful when it would be needed. Thanks again.
Im short…the shortest in my department i can throw any ladder with the exception of a 35 footer by my self…i like this idea because there are some days its hard and there isnt always a wall to use or another guy….were all rolling light these days
Just a side question, why is the 35 ft being referenced multiple times with regards to single person throws? Is this common place throughout the US? Around here, it is taboo to throw a 35ft yourself. For many many reasons…….
Straight ladders are good for roofs and going below grade- never throw less than a 24′ extension ladder if going above grade. hopefully most people can do that themselves. If you don’t sooner or ladder you will come up short (pun intended.)
Keep ’em comming man!! Great tip, used it twice already….And looked like a champ doing it, less effort to throw the ladders means I have more energy to do the 100 other jobs us truckies have to get done at a fire..Love it!
Where do I start? I didn’t even make it half way down the page of comments before becoming so angry, I had to post my opinion.
Some of you, are the most ignorant, arrogant, and inconsiderate ass holes I have ever seen. You all call yourself firemen? Please. I’m glad I spend my time in the firehouse with guys like Jimmy and Dan and not you F***S.
Holy Hell, God forbid a FIREMAN goes out and does training. And then be kind of enough to post it for other members of our job to use in a time of need. Instead lets rip him up over safety issues. How bout we boost our own egos on the backs of a brother? F. U. Thanks guys for all your hard work and effort. Keep it coming.
As for the F***K Tards that I mentioned earlier I’m embarassed to claim you as members of my job. As far as I am concerned, you aren’t brothers and should never be allowed to use that term in a firehouise again. Keep your F’n negativity to yourself. And get your ASSES off the computer and go try to apologize for letting down the entire fire service.
Thank You Dan, for the post and your continued initiative.
Spencer Bashinski
Engine Company 8
Orlando Fire Dept.
I dont know anyone that can throw a 35 footer by them selves my departments has two flys and its a bitch with 3 guys
Well said, Spencer!
“Holy Hell, God forbid a FIREMAN goes out and does training. And then be kind of enough to post it for other members of our job to use in a time of need.”
THATS GREAT, BUT WHAT GOOD DOES A PIKE POLE DO ON A ROOF? CANT SOUND ON THE ROOF WITH IT, MAYBE ITS A CALI THING TAKING HOOKS RATHER THAN A PIKE POLE. GOOD IDEA THOUGH.
Oh MY Smith… Please tell me you are kidding us ??/
Spencer,
You could’ve said it any better.
Well said Spencer. Really, if you don’t want to use a tip/technique then don’t use it…it’s that simple. Why don’t you naysayers go bust the balls of all the “other” guys lying on the couch, playing on the computer or talking on their cell phones all day. They are our “enemy”, not the guys training and trying to make this job better and safer!
Great Post DAN! Well Said Spencer. FTM!
Nice trick, I’ll have to try it sometime.
We utilize 2 section 28’s in my department. We are expected to be able to slam them by ourselves, away from the building on a hard surface. If you are of average height, throwing a 28′ by yourself is significantly harder than a 24′. The extra 2′ of length makes a HUGE reduction in mechanical advantage.
I worked my ass off to master my 28′. It is my tool, and my obligation to master it. There are people who say slamming our ladders by ourselves is dangerous and not necessary. They are fools. Someday someone’s life may be dependent on my ability to violently and efficiently place MY TOOL in a position to help them.
We are always ONE 911 call away from having to do the things the aforementioned fools above say “we don’t need to learn to do, because we’ll never need it”.
If you can’t (or won’t) slam an extension ladder by yourself than get the F out of the fire service. The world need plenty of bartenders.
Lighten up Francis (Spencer). I am sure you are a real joy to work with! LOL
I dont think there has ever been so much bi+ching over one post EVER!! My god. For everyone who thought this was a “stupid” or “bad” idea, I hope and pray that one day you’ll run into a situation like this and have to use this trick. I hope you eat your words. As for the three rung above the roof “rule”, if your more worried about the number of rungs that are above the roof, you gotta start worring about your job and not what the book said.
It’s four or five rungs Evan LOL,, and if you think this has bitching you missed last year 140 + posts on a thread … I could see how this could be especially useful when encountering an overhang or obstacles close to a structure. I have not given it a shot yet but I will..
Evan, do you even remember the metere pulling post??? Or the bailout hook? 🙂
Make that meter. Wasnt trying to go latin.
What about the Indy video, while we’re at it? 🙂
Tried this the other day, and not a bad thing to have tucked away in the ol’ noggin. Worked better that I thought it would.
I forgot that one! Hey, I got it! Let’s all argue about what post prompted the biggest argument!
Awesome tip man… I love it….and yes it can be used with the big boy ladders. This is a 28ft Heavy Duty truck company ladder (not the wimpy alco lite ones)
Next trick im tryin for a 35 with an 8ft hook
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9uo21WDNRI
I dont care what anyone says, that was sick, lol.
Works nice. We used it in a Orange Count Apt fire.
Wow…Pretty pathetic that some of you guys are pounding your chests saying this is a LAZY way of throwing a Portable. Next time your in a Narrow alley between two buildings, someone is hanging out of a window, and youre alone and need to raise a portable to get them, you cant push it up against a wall to raise it, alley is too narrow. Youre going to tell the person IM SORRY IM GONNA KEEP TRYING BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO BE LAZY!!!!?????? The idea shown in this video is OUTSTANDING!!! Its great, Youre carrying youre tools and a ladder. Just drop one step on it and use it to butt your ladder. To the Volley saying the butt is going to get worn down; you just showed you are just that, a volley. Youre millons of tax dollars going to your shiny rigs too valuable to get used? Who cares about a butt being worn down. That is what checking the rig is all about and if something is worn, or broke, you take it out of service and get a new one or fix it. I cant imagine you are that busy that youre throwing ladder that much to wear them down. Besides if you read rather than watch the video, or are you the type to simply look at pictures and not read, Generation xbox? It states the dragging is simply done for demonstration and not to be done normally. Guys stop complaining and commend this guy for coming up with this. If you dont like ideas to help you on the fireground dont log onto sites like this. Go play xbox and find a new job. The fire service is not for you!
Nice job Dan. Thanks for the tip. Spencer, well said brother!
some guys like it, some don’t. it’s just another tool to put in to tool box. Really good idea, i am sure to use it when i need it.
Agree…another tool. However, seems to be another example of over thinking something. Just saying…
Wow.Iwas going to post a tip about putting fire out by using water, but I’m sure all the know-it-alls would shoot it down and say they had a better way!
bulldawg, CAFS works better.
dman…i’m not about to throw baby cows on a fire
It would be nice to have a steak before starting overhaul, though.
I suggest if you are in the hose dragger business you find a different site.. This is a real man site,, ya know the knuckle draggers AKA the truck Co!!! How some of these dumb a$$es even know how to use a computer without breaking it in half is one of the worlds mysteries!!!! LOL,, and CAFS are for sissies just throw it out the window and let the hose draggers put it out !! They are yard breathers anyway so it is less of a walk for them ;-P
Just found ou that the rookie makes a good footing to throw the ladder as well. Nice post.
Great Tip, works well with 1 person which for my department is not uncommon on a 24.
Great idea! I will be passing it on to the rest of my crew and having them give it try as well. The discussions,ideas, and tricks on this site have been a regular part of our drills since I learned of the site. VollyFF, why did you even waste your time posting those comments? I’m a volunteer firefighter myself, so if your department is anything like most other VFD’s in this era, you’re short staffed for a good portion of the day. That is when the great, innovative ideas like the one that you see here prove there worth time and time again. If you didn’t catch it the first time you read the article, go back and re-read it as many times as you need to until you understand what “done intentionally for demonstration” means. The next time you go to your firehouse, take a second to look at the ladders on your rigs, I bet there is more damage being done to the ladders from lack of maintenance then there will ever be from pushing a ladder a few feet along a sidewalk. The “Essentials” manuals that I have used provided me with the information needed to pass my exam and get my certificate, not what to do when I’m by myself in the middle of the afternoon, trying to perform a job until the understaffed mutual aid department arrives. I think I will keep the essentials book on the rig from now on though, so when I wear down the foot of the ladder I can level it out and get my job done.
Good stuff Dan. I did it and it worked good. Most of the post on here seem to be from experienced FF. So this technique probably isnt for you. But can we at least look at more of the positive side of this technique. Think of this. Rookie? Inexperienced? Someone who just doesnt work with ladders much? Which always seems to be the person who gets tagged with a this task that a lot of people take for granted, and it kicks there a??. This would benefit them the most. And of course YOU who needs the egress.
I think it is a great idea! It shows outside of the box thinking. If you read the article and watch the placement it is secured with one beam in the grass. If there was truely this much ball busting as seen by the posts above in our own backyards, guess what that means…more training…more ideas and just maybe, just maybe….reduced line of duty injuries or deaths. You see it everyday about fire departments needing more manning, houses being closed etc. Here is a house that is trying to figure out some neat tricks of the trade. For those who fall back on the essentials of firefighting book, my question to you is. How much dust was on the book and how long did it take you to find the answer. This wasn’t a recruit school video, this was a crew thinking outside of the box! Need more of it! FIRE TRAINING!
Great little trick Dan! It works great in sandy, moisture rich areas (beach communities). I had the pleasure of working with Dan, Rob, and Spencer….top notch Firemen. Unfortunately, I had to move back to S. California for family reasons, and I miss the brotherhood and family of guys like that. Here in L.A. its ALL about EGO. It is ridiculous and dangerous! If your INSECURE enough to make ridiculous comments on this site, then go back to high school where 15 yr old girls might think your cool!
OFD Pride!
I tried this while doing ladder training one day with the crew. I’m only 5’4” and this works beautifully for me. We did throwing a straight ladder normally, then this method. For me, it works. We don’t usually get many fires where we need ladders. Most of my county is either rural, or 1 and rarely 2 story residential. The tallest structure in my first due is a 3 story city hall. I’m going to use this method because of that. It’s easy on the ol’ back too so less risk of injury.
For those of you that don’t like it, don’t do it. Don’t b*tch about it, just don’t do it.
It was observed that not once did the firefighter look up to insure the overhead was clear of hazards. His focus the whole time was on the tool and butt placement.
Thank You
Paul and Keith
The stated purpose of the video was to relay a tip on butt placement. It was a short video that showed just that one aspect of a ladder raise. I think it’s safe to assume that the FF in the video sized up any obstructions on his walk from the truck.
Great little video. We dont get to do much ladder training in my station, since most of our first-due buildings are multi-story high rise Condos. Next time we get out to train, i think i might try this just for the heck of it.
Good work!