We are trying like hell to “save” this video, but we are having some trouble. If anyone has any ideas let us know.
http://www.king5.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=www.king5.com/ki_100505tacfire.wmvBesides the “grabs”, look at the conditions prior to vent and after vent.Besides the “grabs”, look at the conditions prior to vent and after vent.Even the reporter, who knows nothing about fire talks about the benifits of vertical vent.Â
Besides the “grabs”, look at the conditions prior to vent and after vent.Even the reporter, who knows nothing about fire talks about the benifits of vertical vent. Comon Ponzie, you gotta respond to this one!-Jimm-
Great Work Jeff! We will search above the fire all day long (many times on light-weight floor truss). But vent the roof for life safety? Maybe / Maybe Not!!!
1. This video is a true and excellent example of the tried and true basic tactic of vertical ventilation. While viewing this video take a moment to note some critical things throughout the operation. Note that when making the cut the ovm makes the cut from the safest yet most beneficial area of the roof evidenced by lack of fire issuing from the cut. Tactical venting my warrant us to right off certain portions of the structure similar to that of handline placement. Observe the times that were required to operate in this manner (Approx 2 minutes). Observe the conditions of the attic and second floor prior to the cut and within seconds after the vent was established. Note the size of opening and its effectiveness based upon the amount of smoke in relation to all of the existing vents. Pay attention to the actual breach into the interior of the apartment when you have a large volume of pressurized smoke that releases upon vent being accomplished. Throughout the video we can see a significant decrease in fire in the other areas of the attic. Prior to venting the interior truck an engine crews were in high heat, zero visibility, as well as risking flashover conditions. Note when water is applied the amount of steam that exits the vent made. Had there been a victim and the vent was not in place there would be no chance of survival not to mention the steam burns that could have occurred to the firemen inside. Many would be concerned when they saw fire issuing from the vent. I think its great now we know exactly where it is and have the ability to locate and extinguish it much quicker. As with any tactic vertical venting must be weighed with cost Vs gain. Benefits for the interior crews include reduced heat, improved visibility, lessons flashovers occurrences, reduces potential of backdraft, increases civilian survival, reduces the spread of fire when used properly. We must not forget that although we have great equipment we are in need of these life saving benefits as well as can be seen by the continued high number of fatalities that occur within the fire service despite these tremendous advances in gear. Although well trained we are still humans we get lost in zero visibility environments as evidenced by approximately 40 % of our fireground fatalities with 58% within residential structures. In the name of safety we continue to eliminate the most basic but effective tactics in firefighting. Sometimes this proves to be an ineffective method as evidenced by the continuing high numbers of firegound deaths despite the advances in suppression equipment. Anytime we work above the fire we put ourselves at risk. Again cost vs. gain comes to play when we consider the improvement and safety of the members operating below us in these deadly environments. Just a few thoughts. There is much more to come but until then stay safe Jeff Ponds
Strategy / Tactics
Does your IC develop the strategy and implement the tactics from the command post?
I believe the implementation of tactics should be the responsibility of the company officer (while maintaining close communications with command).
Unfortunately many command officers believe they alone can best manage strategy, safety, and implement tactics.
How many of your IC’s have experience riding engines or truck companies? How many had more than a couple of years experience as a lieutenant before being promoted to DC?
My personal experience tells me that the IC who allows their companies to implement the tactics will have greater success on the fireground verses those who implement tactics from the front seat.
The following is an excerpt from a “round table†discussion found in Fire Engineering Magazine.
Bob Oliphant, lieutenant,
Kalamazoo (MI) Department of Public Safety
I would define strategy as the overall plan for managing the incident and tactics as the individual or group efforts used to execute the plan.
“I think strategy relates more to command and tactics to line personnelâ€.
If command gives the order to ventilate a structure, it becomes the responsibility of the officer and crew assigned to the task to use the appropriate tactics to accomplish it.
Fire Engineering December, 2002
OFD&Y I couldn’t agree with you more!
Absolutely tactics should be formulated at the company level! If Incident Command is dictating tactics, they are micro-managing the incident, if they are micro-managing the incident, they could not possibly be “commanding†the incident. Incident Command can only make decisions based on the information the “interior†crews are communicating. So that leads me to say “we need to communicate with the IC!†If we communicate better, and give him the information he needs to make good STRATEGIC decisions, then he’ll be too busy to dictate the TACTICAL ones. If I have a job to do (strategy) and someone outside is telling me how to do it (tactics) something is seriously wrong! You wouldn’t tolerate that around the firehouse would you? Why is the fire-ground different? I don’t care how white the helmet is, if their not feeling the heat, or blinded by the smoke, they shouldn’t tell me how to perform in that environment. They should have enough trust in the company officer, and themselves to prevent this from happening. -Jimm-
AMEN! To all of that. IC’s have to have trust in the Company Officers, and the Company Officers have to have trust in the crew to get the job done.
How come you gotta be a fireman for 4-5 years before you can just drive. but you only gotta be a Lt. for 2 years before you can be chief and run the whole show??
Did anybody notice the guy in the white cowboy hat carrying the gas can away from the scene. It was brought to my attention by one of our investigators. When they are treating the victim you can clearly see in the lower part of the screen a man carrying a gas can. Hmmmm….
This is a prime example of when not to use PPV….yet we routinely see the same mistake made over and over. Keep the fan on the truck until the fire is out….get out, get to work, get ladders up and get your search done before you crank the fan!
A perfect example of great truck work! Many people will say ” why are they on the roof with fire underneath” (said in a high pitched sissy voice). My answer is because the brothers below need it! Never forget that when we say “vent for life”, we are referring to our brothers first and the civilians second. If we cannot reach the seat of the fire to put it out or control it enough to allow truckies do an affective search than we will only be recovering victims not making rescues. If a knucklehead news guy in a copter can notice the improvement in conditions after the cut then just imagine how the enginettes felt (they have sensitive skin, ya know?).
Keep it comin, that was awesome!
Training creates instinct
JC
It is just incredible what a well placed roof ventalation can do
anyone know where this video went or where it can be found? youtube maybe?
thanks