We always advocate trying to identify and visualize what is locking the door we are working on. Sometimes this is easier said then done. Captain Jerry Calabrese from Westminster (CO) Fire sent in these photos of a door they recently ran into.
Some doors, like the one pictured above, do not present us with the tell tale sings of what additional locking mechanisms may be present. The absence of exterior bolts makes it difficult to read what additional locking mechanisms we are facing. The absence of any handle, latch, or key should at least let us know we have something securing the door. It goes without saying, when working the rear door of a commercial occupancy we should expect some sort of supplemental locks.
I think it’s funny that there is a reminder posted on a door that is most likely not used as an exit. Is that so they can turn off the swamp cooler when exiting for a fire?
K-12 on the commercial everytime…
Aluminum Oxide Blades or the new Cutters edge (diamond tip), which supposedly leaves it to cut anything and everything from your plywood and OSB to your concrete and steel.
The key to this door is not seeing the carriage bolts. Once you know that, its almost a given that it has BS sheet metal screws holding it. Hardest part of this door is going to be getting the adz behind that door to get it out. I would def hope I had some help coming as I would need more leverage that would be provided from a second halligan being married up to mine. If not just do as they did in Spies like us, cut the sucker!
While this would be classified as “extra security”, I really don’t think that this mechanism would give you any more of a problem than your typical rear commercial door. In my experience, a visual lack of security from the exterior usually means the exact opposite (drop bar or other locks like shown). To sum it up, there are not many areas where a store owner is going to have a simple door with no door knob or dead-bolt, so you should immediately think that there is probably something more securing this door.
It appears that the device shown is very similar to a Fox Lock or possibly a version of it (although, I cannot identify the vertical device with the padlock). Not knowing that this lock is present, I would obviously attack this door with the irons as a typical commercial outward swinging door. When met with significant resistance (near the bar) I would probably move move higher up on the frame thinking I was too close to the lock. Hopefully in doing so, there is not another drop bar present high on the door. Moving higher and away from the locking bar, will typically allow the door to crush or bend outward slightly so a purchase can be made in the crack of the jamb.
Insert a wooden chock (or axe, but then you lose your strike tool) to hold your progress. As you move down the door towards the lock, keep moving the chock down the door to hold your progress as you proceed. This will put tremendous pressure on the locking bar and will hopefully bend it. If not, the locking bar should be somewhat visible to attack with the forcible entry saw (if available) OR you could interlock the forks of two Halligans together for extra leverage on the door. Another option is to “grab” the bar with the forks and bend it or pull it outward.
Once the locking bar bends enough to pass through the frame, the door will pop open. The locking bar that is secured into the frame on the hinged side will act very similar to a hinge when the door is pulled outward. It SHOULD open up with slight force. Usually, there is no need to work on the hinge-side when dealing with two way or four way locks.
While a forcible entry saw (aluminum oxide or diamond) may assist you here, you will still have to force the door conventionally to get in as the locking bar will have to be worked out of the frame on the “lock side”.
While I do recommend calling for the saw if you are having difficulty, that doesn’t mean that it is the best route in. I would opt for the irons in this case.
As always, great find and thanks for throwing this stuff up here for discussion.
Chris,
I thought the same thing, but then I thought about it further. Probably the last thing that the owners/workers do before leaving through the front is to lock or make sure that the rear door is locked. That is when they will see the sign and assure that the swamp cooler is shut off.
Just my 2 cents
I agree with Nate’s suggestion of no evidence of hardware=heavy hardware. I have heard a lot of suggestions of a dog door cut (lateral cut below the locking hardware i.e. the doorknob) on doors with panic hardware. I expect most of us would try with the irons first, but wouldn’t a dog door cut would work well here? It would provide access to the locking mechanism and there are few lock configurations that a dog door cut is ineffective against. I work in a rural department that does not get much exposure so I would appreciate getting others opinions.
Macgyver,
I am not sure if a dog door cut would help here or not. As I understand, a dog door cut is effective when you can manipulate the lock from the inside. If I am wrong on this term please correct me.
It doesn’t appear that this lock can be “readily” manipulated from the interior. It appears that the padlock on the inside is securing the device that needs to be moved to release the bars.
I think that a dog door cut would be effective if you did a plunge cut on “lock side” and that plunge cut severed the bar. In theory, you could then reach through the dog door and pull the severed part of the bar out of the door frame from the inside.
By the time you were able to realize that what I described above needed to be done and then perform the required cuts correctly, you could probably be through it with the irons.
I may be wrong, just my thoughts. Anyone else?
Great detailed explanation Nate! If you can, please take some photos of that method and send them in!
As far as the Doggy Door Cut is concerned, it would work, but as already suggested it may not be the fastest method. It’s hard to slow down a crew that is PROFICIENT with the irons.
We filmed a video of a doggy door cut and will be posting it in the next few weeks. It worked well, and would certainly defeat this set-up. The doggy door cut for this door would be a horizontal cut from jamb to jamb at about the 2-2.5ft level. Once the cut is made, the bottom of the door would open on the one hinge that it is still attached to. This would allow a firefighter to crawl under the door and get inside. Once inside, the firefighter assesses what locking mechanisms remain, and determines the best way to defeat them. In this case, since the saw is already warmed up, a quick cut on the padlock or hasp assembly would defeat the remaining locking mechanism and allow the lock to be opened by hand. If the saw was not used inside, a well placed set of irons could also defeat the lock.
Our original write-up about the doggy door can be found by clicking here.
-Jimm-
Here’s another thought, it may be a stretch, but it would work…
If you knew this exact lock was behind this door, the doggy door cut could be placed a little bit higher (2.5-3ft level) and would basically cut right through the vertical bar above the padlock. As indicated by the red line. This way, once the firefighter was inside, he could just rotate the locking mechanism by hand. –Jimm-
Jimm,
Thanks for explaining the doggy door. I thought it was a smaller square cut out of the door to reach in and manipulate the locks. I understand how a doggy door may be used in this situation.
I agree 100% with Nate and Jon, the irons are the way to go here for sure. A couple of points from me:
Nate,
You mentioned as an option after prying the door out you could use the fork end to “grab†the bar and bend it out toward you. I know exactly the technique you are referring to, typically it is used on Fox Locks…. Correct? Now correct me if I am wrong but would this technique not work on the lock in the picture due to the fact that the extending lock arms are round instead of flat stalk (like a Fox Lock)….. Would the halligan not just spin and not grab? Would using the pike in behind the bar maybe work a little better?
As for the doggie door, I think it is an option but I don’t think it would suit the situation here for the simple fact that the irons should be quicker in my opinion. We also have to keep in mind that unless we knew what was on the back side of the door we would not know where to cut or even if there was a supplemental lock (no evidence of a lock even though we would expect one). There could be four barrel bolts screwed in (one on each corner) on the back side of the door for all we know, if this was the situation you would have just wasted the time cutting the door in half.
If we approached that door not knowing the interior configuration what would we do? I would start my standard forcible entry techniques (gap, set, force) just like Nate described.
One additional point on sizing up this door, there is one major clue that this door has supplemental hardware on the ass of the door. If you look closely at the mortise lock on the door it has no door knob and no cylinder in it, this tells me that either this lock does not work or it will be pretty easy to open either way could be a clue of additional security measures.
Jon,
You mentioned that you may need a second halligan to attain some much needed leverage. I was just curious if the second halligan was delayed or not coming could you not use the hook from the canman as your cheater bar? If there is a New York Roof Hook available could you not drop the prying end behind the pike and the shaft of the hook behind the forks to give you additional leverage?
I think this door is a good example of how important it is to “open the building up†and create secondary exit points for crews operating on the inside. If a mayday situation arose (collapse, flashover, lose water, primary egress cut off, etc.) and a firefighter with no tools in his hands (guys from the engine) made it to the back side of this door they would be trapped due to the padlock on the locking device. Don’t wait till it is too late to start making secondary ways out for crews.
Stay Safe Brothers,
Andrew Brassard
Did anyone else see the two bold heads on the door from the outside picture? After a closer look I realized they don’t even appear to exist on the inside. My first thought was drop bar, so shear the heads and release the door from the bar. Doggy door is my vote. Good pics. Excellent discussion.
Just realizing now that based on where i’d make the dog cut (seeing the 2 bolt heads outside) would prob end up being below the the lock, thus giving another obstacle to tackle anyway. Andrew puts it best: “keep in mind that unless we knew what was on the back side of the door we would not know where to cut or even if there was a supplemental lock.” I just fell in to the trap of being able to see the inside of the door before making my decision on what to do. I would have loved to see the initial ideas if that second picture was held off for a few days. Maybe we could try doing that in the future on these types of submissions. Just an idea. Excellent discussion.
Andrew,
Yes, I was pointing out the technique that we commonly use on Fox Locks and you are correct that Fox Locks are typically constructed of flat stock steel. Being that this one is round/cylindrical, I am not sure how it would work and you are probably right in your statements. I was basically throwing out everything that I could think of 🙂
Nate
This a cheap door with cheap lock. Its a transvestite of a door. I believe I would be embarrassed to be the Kat walking around with the gas operated master keys facing a door like this a ” wooden door with a metal skin ” or the fancy lock that will fail when Force is applies properly. We overcome the engineering of the door and lock. I cannot stress enough the importance of knowing your territory don’t be surprised.
Andrew,
Like the Brother Truckee13 stated, its a metal covered wood door. Wood doors are a pain in the ass as they tend to crack and not crush like metal ones, but still you can get it with the right two guys. Now as for using the NY Hook, you could try it, but I would be more inclined to use it as a chock like Nate said, moving it up with my purchase. The metal shaft of the NY Hook although strong, kind of losses a lot of energy cause it slightly flexes, nothing like the rigidity of two halligans together. Just remember, as always, we are the life hazard at tax payer fires. It kills me everytime I read about one of us being killed to extinguish something that can be replaced from China.
How many guys here have a cordless drill on the truck? I would look at using a hole saw and remove the door around the carriage bolts. If you have a sharp bit, you can make those four holes in a minute or two, with the locking device removed from the door, just pull it open. Then a good blow from the sledge, and the locking mechanism would fall out. If that was a concrete filled door buck, with good penetration of the locking device, you would have one hell of a time forcing it out.
Jim, you must work in some well equipped fantasy land. We were issued a new 36v hammer drill with no bits!!!!! Luckily the Mobile Command Center ‘donated’ some 🙂
Jim C,
While I agree that your method may be successful, I have never found myself at the rear of a taxpayer fire with a cordless drill. Again, I am not discounting your method as it is innovative and you are thinking outside of the box which is hard to come by now days.
In practicality, I don’t see myself using this method as I will probably not be taking a cordless drill to anything fire related. In my experience, our cordless tools are somewhat unreliable due to the constant changing of batteries (twice per day) and the batteries losing their life (after building a memory). This causes the batteries to have about a two to three minute useful life at diminished power. Again, I’m not speaking for my whole job, but that has been my experience in the companies that I have worked in.
While a concrete filled buck may give a little more resistance, it may also work in your favor. If the buck is filled with concrete, the frame should not crush, which should provide an excellent fulcrum for the adze end when prying outward (especially if the axe is used as an extra fulcrum). It is important to note that we are forcing the steel locking bar and the wood/metal door, not the jamb.
My option #1 is still going to be the irons.
wo-wow-we-wah, The comforts in life, cordless drills, 2 minutes. Ok we can agree that the scenario to force this door is a WORKING FIRE?
This will give me a clue where we stand, What companies are getting the doors and windows on this job. To Truck or not to Truck that is the question. There is a little more to this job then the hose. The second due crew gets the truck work.
Be Good
Thanks for your comments guys like I said I am with a rural department so we don’t get as many commercial fires as some of you do. And we have plenty of paranoid rednecks who fashion there own locks, so I am soaking up the information.
I wanted to note it looks like the guys in the photo attempted to use the adze on the exterior above the old door plate, and you can see how effective that method was initially to get an idea of door composition. Additionally on the exterior I don’t know whether there was supplemental locking hardware where the marred brick is now. (you can see the brick dust over the door hardware plate.) Again thanks for your comments. Be Safe.
As so many others state, this is just my two cents worth as well. My dept. carries multiple saws, both circular and chain type, with the circulars being set up for concrete and steel. Some are the 12 inch and some are the 14 inch blade size. Each of them have quite a bit of distance from the tip of the cutting blade to the actual arm where the shank is. The 12 in. is approx. 4 in. and the 14 is approx. 5.5. If faced with this type of locking problem could it be possible to plunge cut as deep as you can go, starting high and going as low as possible down each side and then connecting the cuts across the top and bottom? Even with the 4 in. cutting depth, it should still be able to go through the locking mechanisms. Also, of course dependant upon the reasons for our needing to gain entry into this building (some of our non-fire emergencies) it appaers to be some form of transom window over the door. Provided there is not extreme heat or flame venting out of it, it may offer us at least the ability to look inside from a short ladder and get a quick size up of the lock(s) we are facing.
I agree with Nate, this resembles a fox lock or a king set lock without the external key hole. Forcible entry is an art form, unless you know what you’re doing and practice it in your company level drills, it is very easy to damage a door so bad that you’ll have to find another way to get yourself in. The door does appear to be wrapped in metal, forcing the door with a set of irons probably wouldn’t be that hard, you just have to be careful that you don’t damage the door to the point that you can’t get in!
The K-12 is always a viable option but practice standard methods of forcible entry first. If it becomes the standard to force doors in the ordinary fashion then it will become second nature.
Stay safe
The door in this particular picture shouldn’t present too much difficulty for conventional forcible entry on an outward opening door using the Irons. The sheet metal screws should pull loose with minimal effort. However, I have recently seen (typically on Walgreen’s store rear doors)a much heavier version of this same set up. There are no bolt heads that protrude through the exterior of the door and the lock is held on by “stirups” that appear to be integral to the interior of the steel door itself, i.e. welded. The bars rotate into both sides of the steel jamb and the door is secured in the locked position with a padlock. I have not had the opportunity yet to force one of these locks but I think the bars sit close enough to interior door face that they could be severed with a plunge cut from a metal cutting blade. If that fails a “doggy door” would allow entry and cutting of the padlock might be a viable option. Hence the importance of bringing the saw to the rear of taxpayer fires. Given the understaffing of most departments, who is assigned to get the saw to the rear of a strip store in your department? (If one of you smart fella’s can tell me how, I could send a picture.)
After discussing this in depth, it seems that simply taking your K-12 and cutting the heads off the carriage/lag bolts will get you in much faster. After doing that, the bolts SHOULD drop much easier. I was also told this works well with Fox Locks.
After failing with the irons, I would agree with Easy that my first impulse is to shear the heads w/ the K-12, but the bolts that present on the exterior are erroneous to the locking mechanism. I probably would have been fooled on the first attempt and then gone with conventional forcible techniques. As for fox locks, a good method is to shear three bolts on the exterior assymbly with a halligan and striking tool, pivot the lock protector, and go through with the square tool. It takes some work, but once the interior of the lock is exposed, wind to the low (usually the lock) side, and assuming there are no other problems, the fox is defeated. Frequently in my area, a fox is paired only with a simple slam-latch that can usually be beaten by a simple halligan gap/shove-knife combo. I know this is basic to most, but a lot of departments have forgotten the art of forcible entry. Many depts. spend very little time training on this stuff. Some even break glass on aluminum stile doors without even attempting through the lock techniques. To me,this is only acceptable if the seat of the fire is obvious, close, and a hose team is ready for entry. The sticks seem to come up quickly after you create an 7 foot uncontrolled ventilation hole and a pile of bunker gear/flesh-tearing glass right where your brothers are about to crawl. Even if everything is set, it is almost always worth the extra minute to prevent a brother or sister from obtaining a potentially serious injury. It is fun to break stuff, but usually not practical or productive. Not to mention that when less destructive techniques are successful, it reflects well on your company and department, and can often allow you to resecure the door when the work is done. Sorry to get so off topic! Great discussion, and stay safe!
F.E. is a forgotten, or never mastered, art out here in the sub-burbs. I would guess 90% of the guys here would gap the jam and drop the blade of the k-12 between the door and the jam. Then pry it open with the halligan. Just not enough commercial work out here to keep anyone honest.
JD
Finally the real explanation of what a swamp cooler is for us Northern Folks!
http://www.wonderquest.com/swamp-coolers.htm