Captain Daniel Troxell from DCFD Truck Company 6 sent in this ladder carrying tip. This technique is useful for an outside vent team that needs to transport ladders and tools to a rear position that may be inaccessible for the apparatus. Each member removes a ladder from the either side of apparatus and places them side by side. The hooks are stored already attached to the ladders, similar to what was shown in a post titled DCFD Hook & Ladder a few months back. The ladders are placed on their beams, and each member gets in-between the ladders. The Halligan bar is placed as shown, with the pike end stuck in one of the rung holes on the top beam. Then the ladders are transported to the desired location. Upon arrival, the tools are then removed and laid on the ground, and the ladders are raised into position.
50 thoughts on “Two-Man Technique”
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Great use of man power! While some crews spend there time bitching that they need more more man power you guys are finding ways to get the job done quicker with less man power. Bravo Brothers, I will no doubt use this in training next time we do ladders.
Do you guys have a trick for carrying the saw with this set up? We usually pile the gear on top of the ladders and carry them in a flat raise with the roof ladder hooked over the extension ladder and trash hooks and the saw hooked over the rungs, but it is a little awkward with 2 people I think this would work better.
Maybe a webbing loop or strap and just slinging the saw over your shoulder? I dunno…might be awkward too. I think with the saws your method might be the best bet. Or maybe you could have one of the cops carry the saws for you after he moves his car from in front of the fire building. 🙂 Any other ideas?
This roof hook holder looks different then the other, is this a new mount system?? Unfortunately we have quite a few structures in our area that this is needed. The man at the tip carries the TIC and a can, hooks, Halligan bar and axe on the ladder, 2nd man carries/slings the saw. I have found that most functions can be done with this set up you just have to pray it is a short walk and not uphill. We carry up a two fly and a roof ladder good job thinking outside the box boys !!!
Red….have a look at the training videos at fireengineering.com….scroll down to the bottom of the Training Minutes, Season 3 to “Ladder Drag”. Mike Ciampo shows something which might work for you. Two methods of carrying gear and ladders.
http://www.fireengineering.com/videos/index.html then what PFD023 said
Take it a step further… with the DC Truck manning/operations, have the tillerman take both a 24′ and a 16′ in one shot(Easier than it sounds). Officer and Hookman take a 30′ and 16′ on the same shoulder. Four ladders to the building with 3 people… works like a champ.
I found this on youtube. I don’t know if this has been posted here before or not.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47TaV30K4H8
Great idea. A retired truck boss that worked through the War Years told me that he would routinely have his guys stack up a couple of ladders (often two 35-footers – tough guys!) and do a flat shoulder carry to access multiple windows. He said that they knew they’d need them to get people out and it saved a ton of time having to shuttle back and forth.
I’ve also seen (and done) laying a ladder down on its bed section, hooking a roof ladder onto the fly section with the hooks deployed, tossing a tool or two on that and dragging them to where they’re needed.
Anything we can do to reliably get more equipment to where it’s needed with less people is definitely a great way to go. The senior and retired guys are definitely a wealth of knowledge in ‘outside the box’ maneuvers…I also got to get the rundown on how to do a two-man raise with a 50′ but that’s one I haven’t tried to date; think I’ll save that one for a real emergency.
Be safe.
uh oh….just saw the video from JD…I’m thinkin some are gonna change the topic very soon!
30 MINUTE Cylinders, sigh… I wish.
What’s wrong with 4.5 30 min bottle???? You like that big ass bottle on your back??? A word of advice, there is nothing good that cannot be done in twenty minutes that is any fun!!!
I dont have a choice, it is 45 or nothing.
you guys are insane and are a major part of what keeps the fire service from getting the proper manpower!!!!
billfitz,
What’s your deal, dude?? What is insane? The only thing that keeps the fire service from getting proper manpower is money and politicians who don’t understand. Meanwhile, wtf are you supposed to do, sit around and say, “Well I guess we’ll wait for more guys.” I dont know anyone who isnt hurting for people, so we need to find ways to get the job done with what we got.
My dept went to 45 minute bottles about two years ago and we love them. I cannot even remember what it was like before them. We have not seen an increase in injuries or anyting along those lines. On high rises we switch to 4.5 with one hour bottle instead of 45 minute ones.
There is no doubt in my mind there is a place for bigger bottles like RIT/FAST, Haz mat and so on. I don’t like them for your bread and butter interior fire fighting, I am sure we can all go on for days on pro’s and con’s .Chris you better knock on wood, there a lot of study’s and reports that say the opposite of your departments experience.
We will be replacing our 2.2’s the fall and have been talking about going to 4.5’s. Does anyone know where I can find those studies or other info on the pro’s/con’s? (pfd27@comcast.net) Thanks
billfitz is 100% right on. We always are our own worst enemy’s. They see what we can do with 5 guys so they take one away, hmmmmm, these guys can still do the job with 4. No times are ever kept after you get on the scene and that is all they care about!
My rant,
My wife is a teacher, which means her salary is paid through taxes just as fire, police, highway and other services. As such, she will always be subject to scrutiny and attempts to “save the taxpayer” money through budget cuts (personnel are always the easiest targets). I’ve heard “teacher’s have it so easy” alot more than “firefighters just sit around and wait for calls”. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is the nature of the beast and no amount of chest thumping will change that.
Every state in this nation has a mix of paid, combo and volunteer depts. And each has at least one voice to speak on it’s behalf. And there in lies a much bigger disservice we commit. As an example, law enforcement gets around $18 BILLION annually from the Feds. How much does you dept receive for manpower programs? The best we could come up with was less than $1 Billion and one of the worst bidding process I’ve every seen to beg for that money.
In my state, there are 3 voices for the fire service. Each has it’s own agenda and that inability to act as one has done untold harm to the service as a whole. As Joe Taxpayer, I’m not about to support a group that can’t agree on their own priorities…Would you?
The answer is much, much bigger that blasting a web site for making our efforts easier, safer and more efficient.
Probably have to change my username now…
or they may get confused and I’ll have to change mine….lol.
I agree to a certain point… we as the fire service have always got the job done….with/by whatever means possible… and that is a down fall in the eyes of the bean counters. They think if we can get the job done with 4…well they could squeak by with 3…. Outside of our fires service family little is understood as to what we do or how much we do with so little. In John Q Publics eyes we all have more than enough staffing on our apparatus…they think everyone is like our brothers at the FDNY,IFD,Chicago,Houston,Orlando or any other large dept…. those depts have the minimum levels that we on smaller dept should have…those brothers need more…
Back to the topic….I for one appreciate the creative ideas found on here and have added some of the ideas to my bag of tricks…working on an understaffed apparatus, these ideas sure have been very useful…keep them coming
I think we are all focusing way to much on career depts. here anyway. Here in the great state of PA you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a voluteer fireman, but those guys are hurting for manpower, cuz’ most of them have real jobs, which means who ever shows up, that’s what you get. 2, 4, 5, 6, they have to figure out how to do it period and that has nothing to do with cutting manpower, it’s just how it is. So what do you tell them, not to use these types of techniques?
pfd27 I think there was some reporting on NIOSH http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/
If you have never been there stroll around and check stuff out, I use the site quite a bit while teaching those groups that need a little “smack across the face†to wake them up on how we are killing our own!!! Sorry I do not remember where or when it was but good luck..
To comment on the staffing discussion; I have several friends that have no idea how emergency services work, sectaries and white collar worker type. I was asked by a woman one night “our firemen are saying they need five more firefighters because they are understaffed but every time I see a picture of them there are twenty or more standing around with enough fire trucks to have a parade waiting for something to do at the fireâ€. That is the vision of some in our society today, I explained the best I could about our strategy and tactics and staging and command but it is a tuff sell. I must admit thinking about it from the other side in today’s world we are not the only people “running lightâ€. The question I guess is what is RELISTIC optimum staffing, if two guys can do it why do you need four ? And no I am not talking about the IAFF and other union mumbo jumbo, I mean realistic staffing.
A disclaimer, before all you IAFF/union brothers get your panties in a bunch, I am a proud union member and very pro union so calm down !!!
Ditto for me on your disclaimer, brickcity, and I used the V word!
For the record, those panties were not mine!
PANTIES….. just like a bunch of firemen….start a conversation off about carrying tools/ladders and it can become anything….
But seriously, the average citizen is clueless about what we do…regardless if we do it for free or as our career.
For the record, I am a card carrying member of the IAFF
brickcity1306,
Please understand that I’m not bashing anyone. We serve next to a paid dept that is getting their ass kicked with personnel cuts. It’s not right. John Q has no concept of what should be a minimum staffing response to a 5 story bld. My panties knotted up because this site is not to blame for staffing issues.
If it gets the job done, with less people, faster or as fast, and its safe… why not? our combo department has 3-0 staffing to cover over 1,000 (yes 1k) sqyare miles out of 1 station (lots of Sierra Nevada Mountain Range). We need all the “short-cuts” we can get. (as long as its safe) Even if you have the staffing, it just opens up the door for someone else to start another task. The only downside to this it the weight. How much can 2 people carry? does your departments physical strength differ by station or even by shift? there could be a lot of factors in this. Im more of a person to at least try somthing a few times to see if it works before i make a solid decision. I say good work on the innovation. Maybey we should talk to Duo-Ladders about fabricating some clips and hooks for tools on their ladders. Unless there are actuall hooks rated and made for this application already. So far im not aware, please let me know if there is. solid work fellas!
come on VES..iv seen way better posts than this idea..nothing new here.. I think its time i threw in some of my own local findings to bring this site back up to par!!!
I agree. There is nothing special about this ladder carry technique. Maybe it’s just my area that I’m from, but if you need ladders to the seen you carry all that is on your engine at the same time and tools. Not to take away from the brothers over at DCFD but its nothing special.
In addition for you out their on an engine, carry your roof and extension together. When you throw your ladders together have your partner get the roof and throw it on the other side while you tie off your ladder, (if you don’t have a continuous halyard) and by the time you partner is back you have your saw running and are ready to go up with two escape routes established.
Dman;
“swing a dead cat”.
Coffee out my nose brother.
As for the technique.
Whatever works.
Hummmm if you use the roof ladder as a 2nd means of egress what do you use as a roof ladder???
where im from most of our roofs dont need a roof ladder to walk on.of course if it is needed then take it up with you.
Ok,, so if you don’t need a roof ladder why are you on the roof??? In a perfect world if you are venting a roof there is fire under you, you should ALLWASE work off a ladder! Unless you are only working off a flat roof or popping a scuttle, I would guess you would make neither off of a two fly so agene why are you up there?? FF 101 my friend
“should” has a very broad brush in the fire business.
There is the book and there is the street. I agree with the perfect world strategy and approach. However, I am sure we have all been to those jobs when the roof ladder just doesn’t seem to make it there and as mentioned earlier, “we do what we have to do”.
Continued safety to all .
Happy St. Patricks day brothers.
Forgotten, I said “should†for that exact reason and did not want to get blasted by my own guys!!! Should I have been working off a ladder when the engine is making the 2nd floor and there are clear signs that things are deteriorating rapidly on the fire floor and the place needs to be opened NOW? Should you take the two min to throw it when it is a low pitch roof? I can tell what the NIOSH report will say if you fall through and die. Just so you understand I am the furthest from a “by the book man†but there is a time and place for the book and not under the kitchen table to level it out either..
EGH
“place for the book and not under the kitchen table to level it out either..”
Whoops….I’ll have to replace it with my EMT-Basic book.
Brotherhood above all.
Stay safe.
Ohhh please do!!! Let me tell you a well known secret,, I have been am EMT for 25 +++ years and nothing has changed, just some stupid shit to keep some dumb pencil pushing FAG employed for 80 K a year!!!!! God that pisses me off to no end ..
hey brickcity 1306…your stupid!!!
Finally, something we can all agree on – EMS SUCKS!
LOL,, Ems sucks but it pays the bills!! And here is a thought we work for our money, unlike most of you bucket heads that sleep for twelve hwr out of twenty four and see fire every ten shifts!!! Losers bite me fu&^ing hose draggers, makingthepush what a FAG name
With posts like those above the validity of ANYTHING you say afterwards goes right out the window. Lets stay on topic brothers.
Yea after I posted it I wish I could delete it, but I have said stupid stuff and wished I could take it back too. I am who I am, LOL good bad or indifferent.
God Bless, does it make sense that there are brothers and sisters from smaller departments that just like to see new ideas or maybe put some new tricks in their tool kit that don’t have the privaledge of having 3 or 4 workn’ jobs a day. It’s all good, keep the drama down to a min. Stay safe
I am just an asshole and a mean SOB sometimes!! Ask people that know me, LOL I am working on it but I slip once in a wile 😉
Don’t change brick, you make me look like a saint!
Brickcity1306,
You better effing man-up or they’re gonna stick you on an ambulance! Or worse…an engine!
We are for the most part lucky here in the “Garden state†big red things with hose and some ugly yellow ones do fire suppression and white things “AKA the box†do EMS runs. I know an amazing concept!!! I am even worse on the ems side, DMAN72 I bailed on the street about two years ago moved to dispatch. Now dispatching bucket heads/EMS/helicopters. Thank god I still ride the tower, where I am from we embrace assholes and mean SOB’S, they make the day go by faster. Please do not tell me I am the only one on this forum, LOL and pfd72 I will do my part as long as you do yours.
Forgotten I am just curious, why if you ream someone out does your “validity†go right out the window??? I am not starting with you just curious, I admit that post was over the top but I was just wondering..