Engineer Nick Kokias from Eagle River (CO) Fire Dept, Engine 7 sent in these pictures of something he and the crew ran into while wrapping up at a small electrical fire. Fortunately they noticed this issue just before they opened the door. Take a look at the close-up picture below and you’ll notice that the doors have no horizontal track to roll into. If this door was opened before this issue was noticed the panels would likely fall straight down potentially hitting anyone operating below them. The panels are attached to each other at the hinges by a total of eight sheet metal screws that more than likely only penetrate the door 1/4â€- 1/2â€. The weight of the panels could certainly pull out the screws causing the panel would fall. This would have undoubtedly gone unnoticed on a working fire, and if the doors were utilized, they could have come apart.
In the picture above they at least have some small wire to “limit†the doors potential to open. They have it wrapped from the spring to the door. It may prevent the door from opening fully by a building occupant under normal circumstances, but it wouldn’t stop a determined firefighter.
Overhead roll-up doors are a great method for horizontal ventilation after a small nuisance fire. You can get a lot of smoke out in a short period of time and get back in service much sooner. So next time you operate an overhead roll-up take a quick look up to assess the tracks (if conditions allow.) You may never run across something like this, but you never know.
Great find, good eyes. This is a prime example of the need to exercise increased caution in converted buildings. It appears that a drop ceiling is being installed which would totally block your view of weather tracks ar present or not. What else are building modificatons blocking? In this era of understaffed units we must be more deliberate in our actions to protect ourselves.
Well done brother, good to see you on here. Thats a pretty unique find. Another one to throw in the back of your mind. Did they do this to all the garage doors in the building???
I can’t see the detail very well but it appears as though the springs are no longer connected and that there may be ‘stops’ in place. I don’t think the accidental opening of these doors will be the problem.
However, opening them will be more difficult and dangerous than the crew shrouded in smoke expected.
This is only a question to try to grasp “why” this is constructed like this. What type of building is this (i.e. new construction, in process of renovtion, or vacant)? Are there any opinions out there on how to utilize these door safely for horizontal ventalation if needed?
The building is used as a rug warehouse, and it looked like they are in the process of renovating but don’t seem to be in a hurry. We will return to investigate more details of why the tracks were removed. There are a total of 3 doors that are missing the horizontal tracks. I don’t see any benefit for the business to remove the tracks and keep them off. Bottom line: the doors have been manipulated and fire-ground operations may need to adjust.
Along these lines we once had a house fire in which it appeared from the outside there was a three car attached garage. Heavy smoke was coming from the garage door closest to the house. The hose team entered and could not find the fire. In fact, they could not find the garage. The line came back outside and the man door to the garage forced: No fire found. The OH door with the heavy smoke could not be forced.
To make a long story short, the garage bay closest to the house had its OH door secured shut from the inside and the area finished off as a room. The fire was in the wall between the room and the OH door, which was used as the plumbing chase and was about 10 inches deep and had plenty of insulation and lumber to burn.
As we have all seen, things are often not what they seem.
“I don’t see any benefit for the business to remove the tracks and keep them off.”
Removing the tracks later may be more difficult as their reno progresses. It seems as though appearances are important to this budding business, hence the attempts to beautify the ceiling. As a result I wouldn’t be suprised to find these doors covered with an interior wall soon.
Hmm, I wonder if at that point they will still look like doors from the….outside?
I see a related thread in the near future. 😉
Why did the building department let this go? I can’t belive the got the Certificate of Occupancy with that modification.
The company may not have pulled permits from the city so the building department was unaware of the renovations. Alot of screwy things go on out there that we only find out about on inspections or fire alarms.
Just because it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, doesn’t always mean it’s a duck on the inside.
It appears that these doors are in the middle of being installed, or they are swapping out the horizontal tracks to make room for the suspended ceiling. There are no cables attached to the springs, so it would take a tremendous amount of force to open these doors, which could be a problem if you needed them open. Also, permits are not required to replace garage doors, track, etc., only when adding new doors. (owned a garage door company for a number of years)
As far as Ladder96’s question about ventilation, I would cut them like you would roll up doors, but there is now way to know what conditions the doors are in from the outside. Could be a bad situation, especially if you were wanting them for rescue.
We all know that building owners often make “improvements” without consulting the building code office. We recently found a local Chinese restaurant that had a suspended ceiling. Apparently the ceiling was leaking because they had stretched Bisqueen sheets from wall to wall under the ceiling. The sheets were holding the water that had leaked through. Not a big problem for us if it caught on fire, just a nuisance.
Either way, we notified the health department and the building inspector. He had been in there a few weeks prior and said the sheets were not up. Our inspector was doing his job, but he is just one man and can only do so much. That’s when it pays to know your area.
I have worked in the garage door business for about 6yrs and I have done a lot of remodels or renovations where the company that is moving in to the occupancy is turning the warehouse into office space. Therefore they will cut costs by doing this to the doors and framing around them on the inside. Anytime I had done these we took the tension off the springs and I put a couple bolts through the track just in case and a lock through the side of the track. Hopefully they make them mark the doors on the outside so we have a good indication that the are just for looks.
Good find. Thanks for sharing.
Makes me think, if those doors are cut from the outside, would the fall down? Nothing is keeping them from falling to the force of gravity except what is under them, the other door panels. Now a crew cuts away the bottom panels, the top panels will they fall?
Stay safe,
Egan
Good work brother, Like Truck 8 said, good to see you on here. Definately something to think about. Obviously opening them up from the inside during fire attack it may be difficult to see, but thats what your Thermal Imager is for. With little smoke and fire conditions, cutting this door wouldn’t be needed, but alway consider what may happen if this fire were to extend and you did roll up those doors. Cutting them may be the safest way to control them and ensure that no extra weight is overhead and exposed to fire conditions potentially causeing them to fall at a later time into the incident. Again, that is only if you for see this fire growing into a larger more time involved incident. Take it easy brother!